They're really cracking down on them pirates

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They're really cracking down on them pirates

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- WickedWesticle
- Carey says:
  Most definitely a group effect with you as the lynchpin! I'm sure the 3rd will go really well.
  
  I've found the comments on promotion in this thread very interesting. When I started putting on gigs ten years ago, the internet wasn't really available as a promotional tool. As a rule, turnouts were much higher than they are now. I am absolutely sure that the hard copy flyers/posters that were all we had in those days reached far less people than event invitations on facebook/myspace/internet forum gig spamming/mass texts and emails do now. I have also frequently distributed 300 flyers for a gig with an eventual turnout of 30 people I know personally. In some cases promotion is done very poorly, but more and more often, promoters do a good job, people know about the gig and still choose not to go.
  
  Why is this? A wider variety of entertainment available at home, including pirated downloads of music and films? Less and less desire for face to face contact, fuelled by internet forums, online gaming and live sex chatrooms? Late opening and drinks offers in pubs without a music licence? In the UK, gigs are linked with drinking heavily, chatting to your mates, being seen by the cool kids and going on the pull. Bands frequently complain about audiences only watching their mates or the headliners, and arriving late, leaving early or talking through all the other bands. I know bands who have played in Europe who talk about very different, much more respectful and interested audiences, and I'd be interested to see if turnouts have fallen as much in say, Holland, as we perceive them to have done here. If so, is this because gigs perform more of a social and less of an artistic function in Britain?
  
  So the reality is that less people are going to gigs for a variety of reasons, we know roughly what they are but we're not gonna stop piracy here, bring down the gaming industry, sort the economy out and so on. What's the solution (if any) to getting more people out then?
  
  Maybe the gigs need to be more of a special night (eg Ninehertz all dayers, Jack's thing) than just a regular gig. Give people more of a reason than just seeing 1 band that a mate is in.
  
  Maybe they need to be cheaper or even free. Don't pay the bands unless they are big bands and give people a good reason to be at a gig. Cos it's cheap and there's wicked music!
  
  There's a huge amount of bands and fans into this kind of music but there aren't any regular monthly nights I know of (except Skill Wizard which I haven't been to yet). I'm talking South/London side here.
  
  Kids go to their all ages shows cos they know there's gonna be a bunch of bands there that they may or may not know, there's gonna be a ton of people into the same stuff as them and they're gonna connect with their pals and peers, drink illegally and have a great time. They have a scene.
- [08:14 on 21/04/09]
- noone
- JenTheHen says:
  The library will order in pretty much any book if you ask them, Kev...
  
  why wait? Waterstones has a better selection, is free and I never have to give it back
  
  Rob Himself says:
  
  Buying books is daft.
  
  I know , THAT WAS MY POINT.
  [Edited by noone at 08:22 on 21/04/09]
- [08:18 on 21/04/09]
- Rob Himself
- Shut up and go to the library, stop nicking books.
- [08:46 on 21/04/09]
- bad admiral
- WickedWesticle says:
  
  There's a huge amount of bands and fans into this kind of music but there aren't any regular monthly nights I know of (except Skill Wizard which I haven't been to yet). I'm talking South/London side here.
  
  you should...it's a blinder and everyone gets really into it.
  
  i think this is society's fault. by increasing our individual profit margins, we are extracting surplus value from the artist, making them work harder for longer and not allowing them to wise up to their oppression in their leisure time, instead pushing them to outreach their previous creativities. no wonder so many end up so crazy.
- [08:53 on 21/04/09]
- J Parker
- Deeep, maybe why Mastodon gone rubbish
- [10:43 on 21/04/09]
- bad admiral
- yup...dialectic materialism did for them.
- [10:46 on 21/04/09]
- Podge
- WickedWesticle says:
  Maybe the gigs need to be more of a special night (eg Ninehertz all dayers, Jack's thing) than just a regular gig. Give people more of a reason than just seeing 1 band that a mate is in.
  
  I've always been a fan of this. I see no reason to pay the same place over and over again but when you do it should be a good one. I think in my last band we played London more times than we played Sheffield.
  to just have bands on is not enough these days, we need to push gigs for inventiveness
- [10:55 on 21/04/09]
- Jack
- wait till you hear what our plan is for the venue as people come in
- [11:10 on 21/04/09]
- noone
- Rob Himself says:
  Shut up and go to the library, stop nicking books.
  
  shut up and carry on paying for things and pretending the library isn't crap.
- [11:11 on 21/04/09]
- Ben
- Here's a little petrol for these flames:
  
  Study finds pirates 10 times more likely to buy music
- [12:03 on 21/04/09]
- Podge
- 10 x MORE LIKELY does not equal actual sales
- [12:52 on 21/04/09]
- Ben
- If you read the article, it did equate to actual sales, they had to provide proof of purchase.
- [15:53 on 21/04/09]
- Podge
- Ben says:
  If you read the article, it did equate to actual sales, they had to provide proof of purchase.
  
  interesting, I've not read it properly, been sorting out / making a mess of the back room this afternoon
- [15:57 on 21/04/09]
- Carey
- WickedWesticle says:
  Maybe the gigs need to be more of a special night (eg Ninehertz all dayers, Jack's thing) than just a regular gig. Give people more of a reason than just seeing 1 band that a mate is in.
  
  Maybe they need to be cheaper or even free. Don't pay the bands unless they are big bands and give people a good reason to be at a gig. Cos it's cheap and there's wicked music!
  
  Yes to the first point, hmmm to the second. I went to a free gig the other week and turnout didn't seem to be any bigger than normal. Gigs ARE cheap for what they are, most up here are the price of one or two pints at the most. And entry prices have remained pretty stable over the past ten years, unlike the price of petrol, for one.
  
  Small bands incur travel costs just like big bands. Ninehertz has always operated a "payment by distance" policy as well as never taking any cut for ourselves from door profit or doing a guest list, we all pay in just like everyone else. And have often paid extra to compensate foreign bands and the like. Most bigger bands won't ask a small promoter for the same amount as they'd ask a venue with drink and club profits to back it up anyway. Nobody's in this to make money, it'd just be nice if we didn't lose too much.
- [17:11 on 21/04/09]
- alan
- Jack Dickinson says:
  wait till you hear what our plan is for the venue as people come in
  
  Robots? Mermaids? Robot mermaids? Las Vegas casino style washed up boxer dressed as a pharaoh, doing meet and greet??
- [17:32 on 21/04/09]
- WickedWesticle
- Carey says:
  
  WickedWesticle says:
  Maybe the gigs need to be more of a special night (eg Ninehertz all dayers, Jack's thing) than just a regular gig. Give people more of a reason than just seeing 1 band that a mate is in.
  
  Maybe they need to be cheaper or even free. Don't pay the bands unless they are big bands and give people a good reason to be at a gig. Cos it's cheap and there's wicked music!
  
  Yes to the first point, hmmm to the second. I went to a free gig the other week and turnout didn't seem to be any bigger than normal. Gigs ARE cheap for what they are, most up here are the price of one or two pints at the most. And entry prices have remained pretty stable over the past ten years, unlike the price of petrol, for one.
  
  Small bands incur travel costs just like big bands. Ninehertz has always operated a "payment by distance" policy as well as never taking any cut for ourselves from door profit or doing a guest list, we all pay in just like everyone else. And have often paid extra to compensate foreign bands and the like. Most bigger bands won't ask a small promoter for the same amount as they'd ask a venue with drink and club profits to back it up anyway. Nobody's in this to make money, it'd just be nice if we didn't lose too much.
  
  I guess I'm speaking from a personal perspective there. I would happily pay to drive the length and beadth of the country to give exposure to my band and for the chance to pay somewhere new. If there was a chance there would be more people there if I didn't get paid then at this level that's better for me. I can try and sell a few CDs to make a bit of cash. Obviously petrol money is always welcome and if your band can and will bring a substantial crowd then I believe they should be paid something.
  
  I'm jaded with regards to gig price because I've often had to pay £5 or £6 for local gigs to see a mates band who's playing with 3 other bands that make my skin crawl. It bugs me cos I wanna support my friends but I know there isn't enough people in the venue for each band to get paid for bringing their minimum 25 people.
- [10:59 on 22/04/09]